On PC/Steam I tried clean hands and had to redo Mission 7 where you meet Granny Rags and Slackjaw three times. Poisoning the still will not add to your kill total, but it will raise Chaos. . He is part of the Bottle Street Gang and is described as Slackjaw's best man by Slackjaw himself. If you sleep-dart Slackjaw, it counts as a kill. Slackjaw (Golden cat): Find his guy in the doctors. I've actually just learned. Do the first of Slackjaw's side quests in mission 3 (Slackjaws Missing Man). This. Interlude - Weepers. the point is they are doing a non. Saving Slackjaw is the more rewarding option since he gives you coins if you save him. so they have to do slackjaw nah, you never have to talk to. 14. ”Instead of giving me the key, he attacked me, so I killed him. That glitch you mentioned was supposed to be patched. Settle the Confrontation Between Granny Rags and Slackjaw Granny Rags has captured Slackjaw and plans to cook him in her lair in the Dunwall Sewers. So he probably just found her to be an interesting character, and possibly wanted to see what she would do. The next step is less obvious, because you need to. I'll warn you, if you want the collect-all-paintings trophy, you'll need to reach their confrontation. Note: Taking Granny's runes is a condition of the achievement. You can kill the assassins in the prologue with no consequence. Members Online A rune I won in a Bethesda UK scavenger huntIf you play through without doing the all of the sidequests for granny and slackjaw there wont be a confrontation in the sewer. 5. I've already messed this playthough up a bit by helping her with the two initial missions. Steal the key from Granny and run (or blink, to avoid being heard by Granny). I saw this a few days ago, but didn't try it myself until today. (Spoilers) If you kill Slackjaw in level 3, who will show up with Granny Rags when you're trying to escape the sewers later on? No one, and granny thanks you for killing Slackjaw for her. Edit3: thank you for the best replies and discussion I've ever had on Reddit. Walk up the ramp to your left to the room with the painting, the cameo, and. undetected playthrough. Dishonored® Definitive Editionyou need to do at least one quest with Granny (getting rid of the bottle street boys from her door) and at least one quest with Slackjaw (find out what happened to Crowley). That Granny Rags event will only trigger if you do every side mission for both Granny Rags and Slackjaw, so there is no need to abort it half way through or even go back and load an earlier save. After just going through that area, I found out you can say you're going to help her, and then shoot Slackjaw with a sleeping dart to incapacitate him. If you get past the door and close it before granny blinks up, you should be okay. Leave Granny and Slackjaw alive. Go within her apartment at Endoria Street and do the Gentlemen Callers side-mission. If I kill granny rags and save slackjaw it seems to register her. Exit through cut in floor. Go to Granny’s quarters and locate her cameo on her bed pillow. LOL found best solution until now if you are going for Ghost, Clean Hands and Flesh and Steel. 20. Now I have to make the decision of whether to kill Granny Rags or Slackjaw in the sewers. I settled on trying to be undetected but still killing the major targets. The poisoning one yes, apparently. 2. They haven. It was here that he met up with a. Getting the opportunity to kill her was more than enough of a reward. Granny RagsSlackjaw Question (Spoilers) Kidzombie85 10 years ago #1. After you enter the cave, you will meet Granny Rags and you will find out that she managed to catch Slackjaw (the leader of the gang, for whom you might have already performed some missions), whom she intends to murder and make into a stew. For the Granny/Slack showdown, the ideal setup would be to blink past them, clean out granny's room. Galvani's Offices. By the time I got to slackjaw he was soup before she even asked. 600 coins if assisting Slackjaw. Do keep in mind that if you are doing the Granny Rags side missions, her last mission involves cooking and eating Slackjaw, which counts as a kill. Blink to the left window and open door that'll lead you again to the tunnels. And help. Remember that Granny is invulnerable until you have destroyed the cameo. This about sums up the ghosting community. All the videos on youtube I've found use bend time to pickpocket granny and run away. A second method involves burning the cameo and immediately releasing Slackjaw resulting in a fight between him and Granny Rags. Take key off Granny. I didnt kill granny rags, slackjaw, daud or any enemy or civilian. Hello guys, some of you guys probably know this, but there is a way for you to fight Granny Rags while still having Ghost/Clean Hands. She assigns two tasks. View all comments . I usually rescue Slackjaw because he's real cool. Take the rune. When she asks you to kill him, don't. This about sums up the ghosting community. Walk up the ramp to your left to the room with the painting, the cameo, and the furnance. Much hate. I think you'll have to do Slackjaw's stuff to do the non-lethal with the Pendleton twins. However, no matter where you leave Slackjaw's unconscious body, after you've gone, Granny kills him and, because you left him where Granny could find him, you're then charged with a kill. catsimboy 11 years ago #3 If you don't do it right (i. I remembered loving Dishonored years ago and decided to repurchase it and hunt for trophies. I am able to tranq Slackjaw, but dropping him in the fucked up stew counts as a kill. Granny Rags and Slackjaw - non lethal. Nothing happens other than both Granny and Slackjaw being dead. I want to earn clean hands achivement. For some reason they keep waking up after I knock them out and go talk to slackjaw. A reference to the empresses murder. It technically does "kill people", but your personal in-game kill counter will not go up. 4. Contributed By: Shotgunnova. Ok, so I don't know if this is a thing or not but I was trying to do an accurate playthrough of DH1; making choices I think Corvo would make (so…Granny Rags is an old woman who is initially living in the Distillery District. Help survivors escape eradication. I don't know if killing Granny Rags has any effect on the rest of the game - in my stealth playthrough, I used a sleep. It technically does "kill people", but your personal in-game kill counter will not go up. Galvani's house, then I got the code from the artist in The Golden Cat, then I got the key to his house from the alley, looted his house, looted his safe, and headed for Slackjaw. if you are going for the clean hands achievement, killing granny rags or slackjaw will negate that achievement. Open the furnace in her chamber. Now I have to make the decision of whether to kill Granny Rags or Slackjaw in the sewers. While this method is rather entertaining, it will only work about half the time. There are several variants for you to choose from. . She assigns two tasks. The key is located inside the bookcase. Settle the Confrontation Between Granny Rags and Slackjaw Granny Rags has captured Slackjaw and plans to cook him in her lair in the Dunwall Sewers. . If you destroy her cameo and then knock her out unconscious, it counts as a kill. Granny Rags and Slackjaw - non lethal. 5. 4. Destroy granny rags, hah. Just ignore her from the beginning of the game and you wont even have to bother with her in the sewers. Slackjaw simply has done a lot more harm. Slackjaw and Granny – In Dishonored: the Corroded Man Corvo seeks the help of Slackjaw, now known as Azariah Fillmore, and they reminisce on Corvo saving him from being cooked by Granny Rags. 4. The Granny Rags thing is very iffy, but KOing her should just count as a KO. updated Nov 3, 2016. Follow them by blinking up onto the window ledges near the ceiling, then. As soon as you place Granny’s cameo into the furnance, she will attack you. If you're going out of your way to cause suffering, it'll probably raise Chaos. The first (and as far as I can tell only) people who die are Slackjaw's men who take "free swigs" from the still. the point is they are doing a non-lethal run. Talk to Granny again and then pick up the Rune. I never liked her, I knew something was up with her from the start. Ghost achievement explained. All three times I've been very careful to set down all unconscious bodies on flat surfaces well away from the reach of rats. You can kill the assassins in the prologue with no consequence. Slackjaw seems out for the money, whereas Granny Rags seems out for the crazy evil. You can carry him away or leave him in his bindings. Either way, if you are getting both ticks it should have given you the trophy. We will start a new story and this time we will maximize the carnage and won't leave even a single dog alive! During this one, we are free to use any powers. SPOILER ALERT READ AT OWN RISK! Ok, so I completed the game with "Clean Hands" and "Mostly Flesh and Steel" Achievemnts but I failed "Ghost" because when I tried to pickpocket the Master Sewer Key from Granny Rags she always spots me. I don’t kill slackjaw and refuse to poison the still anymore. (Spoilers) : r/dishonored. You're right. Is. the point is they are doing a non-lethal run. Did Corvo kill Granny Rags? Fate. Think it's all of Granny's missions and all of Slackjaw's missions, actually. Slackjaw's reward is a lot more than if you help Granny. She regards the plague as a joke. If I replay the entire mission, do I reset my upgrades and whatnot? I currently went on ahead the game. If you. Help Granny Rags get rid of her gentlemen callers - go speak to her in her house Poison the Bottle Street still - after doing the above and collecting your rune, she'll ask you to steal the rat guts from Galvani and put. For example, maybe a new deity was chosen in the 10 years between the events of DoTO and D3 and this new deity has a different mark that they give the protagonist. He listed 5 quests total. From the sticking points that you mentioned below (sewer confrontation + callers). Clockwork Undertaker Jun 6, 2016 @ 11:35pm. How to unlock Street Conspiracy. Unless you kill Bottle Street Gang members and make them your enemy, nothing should prevent you from taking Slackjaw's quest to neutralize the Pendletons. We know of Corvo, Daud, Delilah and Granny Rags. Yes, as acun1994 has said, make sure to approach Granny Rags during the High Overseer Campbell mission. Unless you kill Bottle Street Gang members and make them your enemy, nothing should prevent you from taking Slackjaw's quest to neutralize the. Subreddit for the Arkane Studios video games Dishonored, Dishonored 2, and Dishonored: Death of the Outsider™. I don't get seen in the entire mission, but I'm assuming there's something wrong with what I'm doing at the Slackjaw/Granny Rags. Previously the Royal Protector and secret paramour to Empress Jessamine Kaldwin, Corvo is framed for the Empress's assassination, stripped of his title and imprisoned by the usurper to the throne of the Empire, Lord Regent Hiram Burrows. New Optional Quest: Find Granny's cameo . 3. You can also release Slackjaw, grab him, and carry him away. o7. Still counts as a kill. I've tried stealing Granny's key, releasing Slackjaw, hiding and waiting for Slackjaw to kill her (he never seems to be able to, even when I burn the cameo). You can also kill Slackjaw, but doing so won't let you save him. Keep going, swimming through the water part to the stairs the other side. First time I did it, I destroyed the cameo and choked Granny, even though she was 'unconscious' it still considered me to have killed her. If you play through without doing the all of the sidequests for granny and slackjaw there wont be a confrontation in the sewer. Important: In order to get Slackjaw's final side mission, you MUST meet Granny Rags in Mission 2 and complete her missions. You will not come between Sky Witness and his second skin. Slackjaw will win if Corvo kills all the rats that can attack Slackjaw. All you need to do is simply talk with Granny. Hi. Game Trivia. I've tried sleepdarting/choking Granny, and putting her in a safe location and then releasing Slackjaw. . Missable. Corvo can choose to either confront Granny Rags and save Slackjaw, or help her prepare him. Break that darn wood/ find a way to get the rune and swim away. The rune in the room after Granny Rags' kitchen is still there for the stealing. When I finally finished I was surprised to see that clean hands and ghost didn't pop for me. (Spoilers) If you kill Slackjaw in level 3, who will show up with Granny Rags when you're trying to escape the sewers later on? No one, and granny thanks you for killing Slackjaw for her. Have to trigger the side quest confrontaion between Granny Rags and Slackjaw for this. The entire Granny Rags vs Slackjaw encounter just doesn't happen at all, which means you never need to go in that direction. I won't spoil what's the side objective, but that's how you get the key. I settled on trying to be undetected but still killing the major targets. Take the rune. uhm. After resolving Granny Rags' and Slackjaw's dilemma, you come across an encampment of neutral survivors (Low Chaos) or Weepers (High Chaos). Then, talk with Granny until she gives you the key. Slackjaw: Hey! Someone kill this crazy witch, I can make you rich! Granny Rags: Quiet now. I assumed that would leave her alive. Dishonored® - Help Slackjaw defeat Granny Rags. Only your conscious. Granny Rags and Slackjaw - non lethal. Should I lend a hand to Granny Rags Dishonored? Don’t go on Granny Rags’ quests. whatever that is. Slackjaw is found in Mission 3: House. When you do this she starts to go hostile and do her teleporting thing, so as soon as you get the key, you need to blink to the back of the room where you can use the key and leave before she has a chance to actually see you. In Mission 3 do talk to Slackjaw and do his sidequest as you need it for non-lethal. Boards. 119 subscribers. During the events of Dishonored, she is a homeless and blind old woman who is often. . If you choke or sleep dart Granny Rags, it counts as a death. When you do this she starts to go hostile and do her teleporting thing, so as soon as you get the key, you need to blink to the back of the room where you can use the key and leave before she has a chance to actually see you. ) You'll likely want to make a save there anyway, as the Slackjaw and Granny achievements are mutually exclusive. Help survivors escape eradication. I also can't help Granny Rags because then I. I don't know if killing Granny Rags has any effect on the rest of the game - in my stealth playthrough, I used a sleep. Distillery weepers in the second mission. Help Slackjaw defeat Granny. :) Thanks, I was just curious. Dishonored. Go pick up the last painting in granny's shack. Let strength be granted so the world might be mended. I'm playing Mission 7: The Flooded District right? And theres the part in the sewers where you have to either help Granny Rags or Slackjaw. The Heart Vera Moray, also known as Granny Rags, was a wealthy aristocrat living in the high reaches of society who, after an ill-fated expedition to the Pandyssian Continent, became a practitioner of black magic and descended into madness. Go pick up the last painting in granny's shack. I'm playing Mission 7: The Flooded District right? And theres the part in the sewers where you have to either help Granny Rags or Slackjaw. There you will see Slackjaw and Granny Rags talking in the main room. Chunhwa 11 years ago #1. Log in to add games to your lists. I've knocked rags out using darts AND chokeholds. Additional comment actions "innocent people". The only reason it gets locked is because Slackjaw's men lock it. I remembered loving Dishonored years ago and decided to repurchase it and hunt for trophies. The most effective way to kill Granny is by holding the Sleep Bolt, or even choking her. In addition, during the mission The Flooded District, Slackjaw is kidnapped and held prisoner by Granny Rags, who plans to cook and eat him. The rune in the room after Granny Rags' kitchen is still there for the stealing. Dishonored. Furthermore, completing her mission to poison the bottlestreet gang elixir will cause more chaos, making the playthrough more difficult than it should be. Dishonored (Low Chaos) 7. RUN before she materializes. There is a painting above the bed, grab it for Sokolov Portrait (3 of 3). 12. The rune is in this encampment's ditch. Only criminals die. Game Trivia. Slackjaw question. Adenosine 11 years ago #2. Yes, as acun1994 has said, make sure to approach Granny Rags during the High Overseer Campbell mission. I've gone through the whole thing three times very carefully but at the end it always says I killed one hostile. Steal the key from Granny and run (or blink, to avoid being heard by Granny). ago. They're both obviously terrible people, seemingly without any remorse. DocDelicious 11 years ago #3. Also the area with Granny Rags vs Slackjaw becomes completely blocked off and inaccessible, so there's no way to even get there. I placed her body on a high surface. I saw this a few days ago, but didn't try it myself until today. If you play through without doing the all of the sidequests for granny and slackjaw there wont be a confrontation in the sewer. Only your conscious. Granny needs to concentrate. The only way to bypass that area while still finishing with Clean Hands is to use Bend Time II, steal the key from Granny then escape before it wears off and she sees you (she will immediately turn. If it does work, you'll also get Slackjaws 500 coin reward. I am at the part where Granny Rags and Slackjaw are at their final confrontation, yet I am finding it impossible to achieve my desired playthrough because of this part. Hello guys, some of you guys probably know this, but there is a way for you to fight Granny Rags while still having Ghost/Clean Hands. This. Helping Granny with her. As a civilian death and I lose the ghost objective even if I try and hide. Remember that Granny is invulnerable until you have destroyed the cameo. but what if I don't want to poison innocent people? When granny sends you to deposit the rat viscera in the distillery, one of the notes indicates that this will poison not only the gang but all their (presumably innocent) customers that they distribute their bootleg elixirs to. If you sneak up through the balcony of an above house, you can make it to the other side of the locked gate. Not everyone with the Mark makes a noticeable impact in the Dishonored world, that we know of. Contributed By: Shotgunnova. Reloaded that mission again, destroyed the cameo and used a sleep. If you wish to maintain a Clean Hands run, you will need to help Slackjaw, since helping Granny means you will have to kill Slackjaw and place his body into her. As Samuel docks the boat at the beginning of mission three, he will talk about a man named Slackjaw. Go to dishonored r/dishonored. If you're going out of your way to cause suffering, it'll probably raise Chaos. So, I avoided Slackjaw and I looted Dr. Slackjaw's reward is a lot more than if you help Granny. For the Granny/Slack showdown, the ideal setup would be to blink past them, clean out granny's room. Using Tier 2 Bend Time is also useful. Flooded district spoilers. Dishonored (PC) Dishonored (RU) (PC) How to unlock the Gentleman Caller achievement in Dishonored: You completed all the Granny Rags side missions. Dishonored. Yes. Slackjaw question. PlayStation 3 Xbox 360 PC PlayStation 4 Xbox One. (!!!) if you free slackjaw first, one of these may happen: 1) granny killed slackjaw even you act very fast; 2) granny turned into a swarm of rats in fight; 3) slackjaw killed granny just after you burn her cameo. The conclusion I was denied. The High Overseer. So avoiding the confrontation is mandatory, so you can't interact Granny Rags or Slackjaw in the preceding missions, otherwise you'd be forced to do the side mission. I've already messed this playthough up a bit by helping her with the two initial missions. I've tried freezing time, taking Granny's key, then getting the f out of there. I enjoy doing the Granny Rags stuff. Open door/close door. by robbing Granny of the Dunwall sewer master key. 2 Granny, 2 Slackjaw, and the event in chapter 7. I don’t kill slackjaw and refuse to poison the still anymore. 3. You have to flip the furnace switch a second time to destroy the cameo, thus making mortal Granny Rags. Crowley grew up in the streets of Dunwall, running with others of his ilk, avoiding the law and stealing whatever he needed to survive. When entering the area, do not talk to either Granny Rags or Slackjaw. If you don't have timestop, you can still do it, but it becomes absurdly time consuming on higher difficulties because she reacts. When I interacted with the still, I noticed that I could create the "Bootleg Elixir" I had heard referenced throughout my last playthrough, and then I found the empty elixir bottles strewn about nearby. Bend time, blink down to granny to pickpocket the key, and haul ass out of there. Bend time, blink down to granny to pickpocket the key, and haul ass out of there. . If you’re careful, this method isn’t that hard to accomplish. She regards the plague as a joke. This seems important enough that it's specifically called out in. Granny Rags will say "Oh no you don't!" and teleport up to the balcony of the room, monologuing at thin air. If you sleep-dart Slackjaw, it counts as a kill. He is a wanted man with a large bounty on his head. First he asks you to find his missing gang member, and then asks you to get the combination for the safe from the Art Dealer at the Golden Cat. If you killed Slackjaw during the House of Pleasure mission you won't be able to save Slackjaw, and his body will appear instead. Granny Rags: I'm going to boil off the nasty fat and sinew and carve a pretty song on your bones. Follow the objective marker and swim you will go through a cave and learn that granny rags has captured Slackjaw and is in a device sorta like Overseer Martin was. So, I'm at the point in the game where I've done all the missions, been poisoned,and gone through the "Flooded City" or whatever its called. Dishonored® Definitive EditionI swear the first time I played dishonored i went into the sewer mission, found some dude dying and he said something about slackjaw and granny, died, and I went through the sewer and found granny with slackjaw in chains and I put some nickel in the oven and grandma vanished into dust. Ambugaton 11 years ago #12. I think you'll have to do Slackjaw's stuff to do the non-lethal with the Pendleton twins. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games. I do it all the time on high chaos runs; kill Granny to get the coins from Slackjaw, then kill Slackjaw just because I can. Shoot granny rags with a sleeping dart, defeat her as instructed then when you see her in her usual form shoot her with a sleeping dart again, then get her key, release slackjaw,. Go back and sneak up on Granny (If you try to kock her out you will automaticly start the boss encounter) Take the key. Go to Granny’s quarters and locate her cameo on her bed pillow. i used the dishonored wiki to find out more of the lore, granny rags went to addermire institute in 1810 due to insanity, corvo kills her in 1832 (this is the year D1 takes place) by destroying the source. Killing Granny Rags counts as much as any other kill. It is worth pointing out here that it is a way better variant than the previous one because nobody (neither Slackjaw nor Granny) will have to die. Down the right-hand side is the name of the achievements - apart from unmissable story ones which are in one section - are the names of the achievements. Make your to Granny Rag’s Apartment, and opposite it you will notice a thug beckoning you. Although if you get through to the last part of that side mission line with Granny Rags and Slackjaw, just bypass it, you can't complete that side quest line without losing Clean Hands. Start the same way as in the case of variant 1, i. Take the rune. Slackjaw will win if Corvo kills all the rats that can attack Slackjaw. I handled the Granny vs Slackjaw fight like so: released Slackjaw, burned the cameo, choked Granny unconscious. I always had the No Kills box checked on every mission, I never killed any weepers, even under the Hound Pits pub, and I avoided. I enjoy doing the Granny Rags stuff. His early life detailed in this text is fantastic, especially the part with Slackjaw butchering Mike the Fish. Otherwise the game defaults to one or the other being on-top, so to speak. #7. She treads with purpose. He walked through the world unseen, unfelt - disrupting none; affecting all. The. Ghost and Slackjaw. Falthin 11 years ago #1. When you encounter Granny Rags and Slackjaw, your only option is to Bend Time and steal the keys off Granny Rags. As soon as you place Granny’s cameo into the furnance, she will attack you. I also remember guards or an in. You can kill rats and river krusts with no consequence. uhm. In order to get this achievement Corvo Attano must travel 30 meters in less than 1 second. As you are aware Slackjaw is chillin' in the shackles. You're right. I believe you're talking about the Granny/Slackjaw confrontation in mission 7. Slackjaw seems out for the money, whereas Granny Rags seems out for the crazy evil. In the Whalers' Flooded District hideout, Corvo can spy on an assassin teaching a novice on navigating a shadowed room without attracting notice. All you have to do is stop them, so it is possible to do it non-lethally with sleep-darts and such. . Later, she relocates to an alleyway off Bottle Street, behind The Golden Cat. Help Granny. Slackjaw still dies by Granny Rags' hand and you get the blame for it. . The thug informs you that slack jaw has been captured or is in dire need of help and he has the key. Ok, so just to let people know, this has happened to me both times I've played through Dishonored. Defeat Granny by burning the cameo. Slackjaw would mention that someone poisoned the elixir supply in the distillery, when you deal with him in a later mission. So, I'm at the point in the game where I've done all the missions, been poisoned,and gone through the "Flooded City" or whatever its called. Gameplayer4885. Help Granny to kill SlackJaw, follow her. If I kill granny rags and save slackjaw it seems to register her. What I did though was I killed Slackjaw in that final segment and then threw him into the tub. Lowers overall chaos. Talk to granny rags. Corvo has the opportunity to. I didnt kill granny rags, slackjaw, daud or any enemy or civilian. So I just finished Dishonored on my second playthrough with no alerts, no kills, only using blink, and on very hard difficulty. How to unlock Street Conspiracy. House of Pleasure. Is this true? Slackjaw and Granny - In Dishonored: the Corroded Man Corvo seeks the help of Slackjaw, now known as Azariah Fillmore, and they reminisce on Corvo saving him from being cooked by Granny Rags. Slackjaw and Granny - In Dishonored: the Corroded Man Corvo seeks the help of Slackjaw, now known as Azariah Fillmore, and they reminisce on Corvo saving him from being cooked by Granny Rags. Dishonored (Comics) Dishonored: The Corroded Man;. Poisoning the Bottle Street's elixir production (Granny Rags) and helping Slackjaw with the combination are not required, as far as I remember. You can then leave the sewers whenever you want. Continue through the tunnels to face 3 more pods on the wall, Crossbow or Grenades gets rid of these quickly. There are basically, four ways of dealing with Granny…. The reward for the elixir contaminating is also very good, especially so early in the game. BCJMU99 (Topic Creator) 11 years ago #8. Also I'm pretty sure that as long as there is no lightning bolt indicator that appears and breaks, it wouldn't count as a detection anyways. . Granny Rags is a character in the Dishonored campaign who will assign minor quests. And is not as frail as she seems. Subscribe. The very best option is to never interact with Granny Rags throughout the whole game. God ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ damnit. But for some reason, whenever I come to that part Slackjaw is already freaking dead! So I cant get. Still counts as a kill. House of Pleasure is the third mission in the game. Dishonored Definitive Edition (PS4) 1. They do raise the Chaos level if they are.